Dear Friends,
As I have explained freelancer.com’s recent attempts to keep a wall in between the contractor and employer, by prohibiting exchange of contact information, so that they can milk 10% of project commission from their users for life time.
When I started fighting for my rights they given me warning, told me that I have accepted the terms of conditions of their website etc etc (if they add slave trade as condition?? Then it has become illegal and not unacceptable), and they also lied lot of time. However I was able to counter all their arguments and finally the agreed that the employer and contractor have the right to discuss their project confidentially where they feel safe and not where freelancer.com asking them to do. I am posting here my discussion thread for future reference if any body need they can use it. Enjoy 🙂
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Me: What is happening?? After awarding the project also why I can’t exchange contact information??
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Freelancer:
Hi,
Thank you for contacting Customer Support.
Posting of contact details is now prohibited in the site since employers and freelancers can now initiate live chats for their communication.
Posting of contact details is against our Terms and Condition. To learn more about this, please read section 8.2 and 8.3 in our Terms and Condition.
Here is the link: http://www.freelancer.com/page.php?p=info/terms
If you need further assistance, please do not hesitate to email us back.
—
Sincerely,
Jude
Freelancer.com Support
e: [email protected]
w: http://www.freelancer.com
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Me: How to initiate live chat?? and is it allowed to pass contact information on Chat??
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer: Hi,
Thank you for getting back to us.
You can initiate chat by going to “My messages” under the “Dashboard” menu and clicking a message from the messages drop down.
Alternatively, you can click the envelope icon beside the username of the user you want to chat with from the project page.
Moving on, you are not allowed to exchange contact details in live chats even if the project is awarded.
If you need further assistance, please do not hesitate to email us back.
—
Sincerely,
Jude
Freelancer.com Support
e: [email protected]
w: http://www.freelancer.com
—————————————————————————————————-
Me: That means even after awarding 1000 dollar contract we as an employer should work with ghost programmers.
Ha ha My godI could not understand who made all these rules. In this digital age there are thousands of ways are there. Say if somebody given to develop a website if you search whois they will get the contact information.
Then if somebody want to develop an application to sell something and the employer want to add the contact information on the application so that if user like the application they can buy from him? then how to do??
Basically you are annoying your customers and asking then go to your competitors.
I can understand your motto. (10% all money from the freelancers). But history says other thing.
No fair business never succeeded in the world.If I am wrong about the understanding of your contact policy please clarify.
Any way bye the time let me have a try with elance or odesk
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Me: Not only that if we follow your rules
Freelancer is pretty much useless for
Visiting Card designs,
logo designs,
website developments
Total turnkey projectsOh My god what a joke
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer.com: Hi Sajithkumar,
Thank you for your reply.
It states in our site Terms and Conditions that you are prohibited from making direct contact with another user, unless it’s for a project you (a freelancer) have been picked for, or you (an employer) have picked a freelancer for. This includes giving out your e-mail address, ICQ number, phone number, or any other method of contact outside of this site. Freelancer.com provides you with project message board and inbox private messaging on site to communicate, which should be sufficient for pre-project planning. The only exception to this is on “Full Time” projects. If a project has the “Full-time” graphic on it, that means the Employer has paid a flat fee in advance, and you are allowed to provide contact information in the message board.
Let us know if you need further assistance.
—
Sincerely,
Chris Vince
Freelancer.com Support
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Me: “inbox private messaging on site to communicate, which should be sufficient for pre-project planning.”
Please note that I am not asking about the “pre project planing”. I am asking about while project execution after awarding the project and free lancer accepted the project and you have been taken your fees
Regards
sajith
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Freelancer: Hi there,
Thank you for writing back to us.
If you are referring to the fees taken upon acceptance of an awarded project, our project fees are non-refundable whether a project is completed, incomplete, aborted or cancelled.
Project fees are automatically deducted from a user when an awarded project gets accepted by the chosen freelancer. They serve as commissions for introducing the two parties, that is an employer and a freelancer. Once a project gets accepted, at that point contact details are traded leaving us no assurance if the project will be completed or not.
Moreover, project fees depend on the bid amount and membership plan of a user. Please visit our Howtos & Articles page at this link to know more about our fees and charges:
http://www.freelancer.com/news/articles-fees.html
It is clearly stated on our Terms and Conditions under Section 4 Fees that, “Freelancer.com charges fees in relation to the posting of a project; selecting a Freelancer; posting a featured project; hiding a project from search engines; hiding bids from other Users; posting a full time project; project commission fees; and other miscellaneous fees that are described on the Site.” Kindly review this section to know more.
Let us know if you have further concerns or inquiries.
—
Sincerely,
Candice
Freelancer.com Support
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Me: My question is not about project fees. My question is purely about contact information. That is also not in preeplaning stage. It is on execution stage after accepting and awarding the project
My question is if I need to design a visiting card, or logo or web design, and I have awarded the project and freelancer accepted it. And you have taken the fees also. Then without giving the contact information how the freelancer is going to design logo or visiting card. Then if I handover website design normally I do not want to give the login information through the freelancer msg board which can bee seen by staff of freelancer.
Please note that the posting of the contact information changes nothing to freelancer or employer. If they want to get the contact information there are thousands of ways are there. Like lot of people give their sample works uri there almost every body have their contact information listed. SO it did not change anything. But I was interested to know how freelancer came to this conclusion that if you stop the contact information posting here freelancer and employer will never contact and you can always milk 10% of money. Just curiosity
I could have just kept quiet and proceeded. But I just pointed this here because it is totally funny idea that if you stopped here nothing will happen. Then there wont be mankind. Even when I see any freelancers showcase URI shows their email ID I never used to contact them due to ethic issue. But now free lancer is telling us we are all fools to follow the ethics. That is why I upset little bit
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer: Hello Sajithkumar,
Thank you for contacting Freelancer.com Support.
We are currently aware of the issue regarding contact details being removed by our Site Administrators upon the implementation of the new messaging system since yesterday. We have forwarded this concern to the proper department for further investigation.
If you need further assistance or clarifications, please don’t hesitate to contact us again.
—————————————————————————————————-
Me: Not only that How dare the freelancer to ask us to post our business secrets and tricks in a message board where your staffs are always watching
TOTALLY BREACH OF TRUST AND PRIVACY. GROSS VIOLATION OF BUSINESS TERMS AND CONSUMER RIGHTS.
—————————————————————————————————-
Hi there,
Thank you for getting back to us.
The Site is a dynamic time-sensitive web site. As such, the information on the Site will be changed frequently. Kindly refer to our Terms and Conditions under section 8.2 Email.
For the new messaging system, you will be unable to put your contact details. We suggest that you maximize the use of the Private Message Board on the project page, so when problems arise we can easily track this.
If you have more questions, please feel free to contact us again
—————————————————————————————————-
Me: Basically you are asking us to post our business secrets and tricks to a place where your faceless staff is having access. How can we sure that it will not be hijacked by one of your staff??
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Freelancer.com
Hi,
Thank you for getting back to us.
We would like to inform you that Freelancer.com does not share any of your personally identifiable or transactional information with any person or entity. No other third party receives your personally identifiable information or other transactional data except for those with whom you have transactions.
Further, Freelancer.com staff are firmly committed to privacy policy. Whatever the information we’ve gathered within Freelancer.com, as a company, will not be provided to anybody else nor use for commercial purposes.
In relation to the correspondence of each party (employer and freelancer) through Private Message Board, only authorized Freelancer.com staff has the access on it. These correspondence will be automatically recorded on our Messaging Board for future reference.
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Me: Whatever may be asking us to discuss or post our business secrets in a message board where your staffs are sniffing, is forcing us to compromise our business tricks to your staff, who we do not know. Unfortunately I am not having any other choice except to inform fair trade practices in Australia. Let them decide you are doing fair or not.
Bye
“In relation to the correspondence of each party (employer and freelancer) through Private Message Board, only authorized Freelancer.com staff has the access on it. These correspondence will be automatically recorded on our Messaging Board for future reference.”
One more thing I want to clarify?? If google and yahoo depute their staff to sniff the emails and messages will freelance management people use their email??
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer.com
Hi,
Thank you for writing us back.
As previously mentioned, Freelancer.com is committed to privacy policy. The staff are not allowed to use contact details nor provide them to a third party.
You may contact us back for further inquiries.
—————————————————————————————————-
Me: Hi Dianne,
I could not understand who has asked about sharing of contact detail?? Please read the question what I am asking and then reply please please.. 🙂
The question is “Why freelancer is asking us to discuss our business ideas in your message forum which can be read by your staff??
Will you accept gmail if their staff read your email messages??.It is nothing about sharing or privacy issue?? Why we should discuss our ideas to our subcontractors in front of your staff??
Do not worry I have taken this issue to fair trade Australia and they will contact you and let them decide. Why we should discuss this more?
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer: Hello Sajithkumar,
Thank you for getting back to us.
In regard to your concern, rest assured that all your conversations with the other party will remain confidential and Freelancer.com staffs have no access on your conversation. The new messaging system does not allow the users to provide their contact information for security purposes.
Feel free to contact us if you have further inquiries.
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Me: Hello Monica,
Please do not lie here. Already Mr Derrick is acknowledged that freelancer.com authorized staff has access on it. No please do not lie.
Please see his message.
Further without reading the message box how freelancer will know what employer and subcontractor is reading. Whatever it is reading others messages, emails and letters is so unethical, and I think that is the first thing to be thought to the kids to live in this world ethically. We can not do any thing if somebodies dad or mom did not do itAnd as free trade and workplace rule an employer has the right to discuss his plans with his sub contractor where he feels safe. Not where you say. This is democracy and each and everybody has his rights.
More over what is security issue?? Are you from federal police?? If two 18-year plus man women want to have sex they can have in Australia. And you are telling me about security issue??. If two adult can have sex if they wish, how can you stop them exchanging contact. Only thing you are trying to milk 10% of all money by keeping the programmers hidden from employers.
See message from Derrick
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer.com Hi Sajithkumar,
Thank you for writing back to us.
Please note that Freelancer.com only serves as a venue for freelancers and employers so we do not intervene in your transaction and interaction upon the acceptance of this project. Your conversation with the other party will remain confidential and unchanged. The staffs can only access it if there are issues that will arise in the project. The proper department will only access that for verification purposes.
As for the security that I was referring to in my previous is the security that there will be no transaction that will be conducted outside the site. Please note that we have no control in any transactions that will be made outside Freelancer.com because it is already beyond our jurisdiction. For that reason, kindly use the Private Message Board in contacting your freelancer and the Milestone Payment System in paying them after they have completed the project.
If you have further inquiries, contact us again anytime.
—
Sincerely,
Monica
Freelancer.com Support
—————————————————————————————————-
Whatever may be I do not want my conversation or project ideas to be looked
by a third party. In this case freelancer. More over what you are
doing illegal. I am dam sure about it. Anyway I have taken this matter to
proper authorities and whistle blowersRegards
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer: Hello Sajithkumar,
Thank you for getting back to us.
As mentioned in one of the responses, Freelancer.com is committed to Privacy Policy which states that, ” Freelancer.com does not share any of your personally identifiable or transactional information with any person or entity. No other third party receives your personally identifiable information or other transactional data except for those with whom you have transactions. ”
Rest assured that your transactions and interactions with the other party will remain confidential and unchanged as we respect the privacy of the users like in our site.
Feel free to contact us if you have further inquiries.
—
Sincerely,
Monica
Freelancer.com Support
—————————————————————————————————-
You can ask bill gates to post windows source code on your message post
assuring confidentiality or ask Google to post their search algorithm on
your message board.No need to discuss further
—————————————————————————————————-
I was so much frustrated by the adamant nature of freelancer.com. They are trying to deprive the rights guaranteed by the constitution and they are telling me I am wrong. So I fed up. And Left.
Wait a minute. I was thinking why I should leave it. It not me who has made the mistake. So I continued again here
Please Read on again
—————————————————————————————————-
Me: My real concern is posted here
http://www.talkfreelance.com/showthread.php?t=82538
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer.com: Hello,
Thank you for getting back to us.
All contact information is deleted automatically and this is system generated. We highly respect our users confidentiality. We do not intervene to any transactions, discussions, and decision making of our users. To know our specific and more detailed Privacy Policy, you can visit the link provided:
http://www.freelancer.com/page.php?p=info/privacy
—————————————————————————————————-
Me: There is nothing much. I do not want to discuss my business to my
subcontractor in front of your staffAnd how is your system is recognizing telephone numbers
Regards
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer.com
Hi there,
Thank you for getting back to us.
We cannot share how our system recognize the contact details on your messages for security reasons. As stated previously by my colleague “The staffs can only access it if there are issues that will arise in the project. The proper department will only access that for verification purposes.”
Please let us know if you need further assistance.
—————————————————————————————————-
Me: I could not understand what is the authorized people?? Who has give the
authority. I am also in Australia and as per Australian Law whatever it is
reading others letters without permission is a criminal offense.The staffs can only access it if there are issues that will arise in the
project.??The issues regarding the project has to be settled legally. That is why
democratic countries like Australia is having an established legal systems.
I advice freelancer not to act as legal authority as you do not have. And
it is against state and law. You are just an agent working for commission
basis. That is it.. Even for escrow money you have to define who it
belongs?? to the programmer or employer?? (Any way it is not yours). And
you are not supposed to pay that money to other person, without the
person’s permission whom you defined the money belongs to.You understand you are not having any legal rights or any ability
to implement the payment. You are not having any authority to ask somebody
to discuss his business secret on your message board. Maximum you can ask
that you will not give the contact details until the employer and
freelancer pay your fees.Any way my subcontractors are recommending guru to me. SO most probably I
will say good byeRegards
I could not understand what is the authorized people??
Again be clarified. You or freelancer does not have any authority to read
or not even regulate others messages,email, and letters. It is a criminal
offense in Australia
—————————————————————————————————-
Freeelancer: Hi,
Thank you for getting back to us.
As previously stated, Freelancer.com does not share any of your personally identifiable or transactional information with any person or entity. No other third party receives your personally identifiable information or other transactional data except for those with whom you have transactions.
Furthermore, Freelancer.com staff are firmly committed to privacy policy. Whatever the information we’ve gathered within Freelancer.com, as a company, will not be provided to anybody else nor use for commercial purposes.
Also, using our new private messaging feature can be a big help to all users when unlikely events happen during the project completion. It cant be served as an evidence to a party if such issues may arise and by that way, we can also review the history of a project whenever one of the parties involved contacts us for assistance.
Freelancer.com will retain the confidentiality of the project and the privacy of the involved users and will not release the collected information to any party unless required by a court of law.
Feel free to contact us if you have other concerns.
—
Sincerely,
Aaron
Freelancer.com Support
—————————————————————————————————-
Me: First thing First. Do not bring the personal identification details issue
in between this matter. So many time I have pointed out that this issue is
not regarding personal privacy or my personal details. This is about the
ethic and legal rights freelancer is having to force third persons to post
their conversation on your board.
—————————————————————————————————- You are telling that “you are doing this for good.
But who has given you the authority?? Did you have legal rights to do
this?? Did you ever checked?? If so please tell me that as per
“Australian constitution section so and so “Freelancer.com is authorized to
read every bodies messages and allowed to ask third parties to discuss the
matter in our board . Also freelancer
is authorized by Australian constitution tor having judicial authority to
decide the matter of dispute between person X and Person Y 🙂“Also, using our new private messaging feature can be a big help to all
users when unlikely events happen during the project completion. It cant be
served as an evidence to a party if such issues may arise and by that way,
we can also review the history of a project whenever one of the parties
involved contacts us for assistance.”Please understand freelancer.com is not having any legal rights to decide
the dispute or absolutely does not have any rights to look or review any
messages or conversation happened between person X and Person Y. That is
why countries and nations having judicial system established. I was
wondering whether Australian constitution grants the legal authority to
freelancer?? 🙂So the sentence “we can review the history of a project whenever one of the
parties involved contacts us for assistance” is a gross violation
of constitutional rights guaranteed to any citizen of Australia. SO better
not to do it.Also please see one post I have came across
http://getahindu.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/freelancercom-privacy-policy-and.html
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer.com
Hello Sajithkumar,
Thank you for getting back to us.
Kindly note that we do not monitor your conversation with them regarding the project and we provided a messaging system in the site for security reasons. As I have mentioned in my previous response, all transactions and interactions that will be conducted offsite is beyond Freelancer.com’s jurisdiction.
Upon registration, you agreed on the Freelancer.com’s Terms and Conditions under Section 8.2 Email, which states that you use the Private Message Board in communicating with the other party. As a registered user, it is expected that you comply with the site’s Terms and Conditions, and protocols.
Should you have any other concerns, please let us know
————————————————————————————-
Me:
I agree to that. But you must understand that no organisation or citizens
can’t implement or ask some body to obey or sign which is against
somebodies basic constitutional rights. Which is guaranteed by
the constitution of Australia.1. like you can not ask somebody to go to church if he want to work with
freelancer.com
2. you can not ask somebody to work less than award wages or deprive his
super annuation benefits
3. You canot reject any employ because of his religion and race.
4. you can not ask some body to post or discuss his business to others
on your message board*”As I have mentioned in my previous response, all transactions and
interactions that will be conducted offsite is beyond Freelancer.com’s
jurisdiction“*
*
*
You are wrong man. Even if it happened inside freelancer.com it is not
under freelancer.com’s Jurisdiction It is under Australian
Governments Jurisdiction. Australian
Government is having good legal and judiciary system. Freelancer.com no
need to worry about.I could not understand who has given you the impression that you have
judicial powers 🙂Regards
Sajith
—————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer
Hello,
Thank you for contacting Freelancer.com Support.
We have already forwarded your issue to the proper department. Rest assured that this will be handled at the soonest possible time.
Thank you for patience regarding this matter.
Feel free to contact us again if you have other questions or concerns.
—
Sincerely,
Edmund
Freelancer.com Support
—————————————————————————————————-
Looks like they understood what they are doing is a offense (reading others emails and messages)
—————————————————————————————————-
Me:
Anyway, Please note that exchanging contact information is like plucking of flowers now a days. Almost everybody is having ezine or some website address and everybody is having contact information there.
Still I could not understand which man thought that if you prohibit the exchange of address no body will do that??
Your new policy is useless and only good to drive your customers to your competitors.
I am fighting for not to exchange the contact information. If I need I can just give my website urls (Not only me anybody). Almost all websites can be contacted by whoise search, facebook profiles, and so on so on
But I am upset the freelancer.com violation or attempts to violate my fundamental rights offered by the Australian Government.
—————————————————————————————————-
No reply for 4 days I have posted a reminder
I would like to get a reply from you. I was waiting to post my new project.
If you do not want contact information to be posted after awarfing the
project then I want to move guru.com
bye
—————————————————————————————————-
Me Again in another Thread
Hello your terms clearly specify that exchanging contact information is prohibited in planning stage and this is to stop avoiding commissions. It also states that once the freelancer is picked up then you can exchange the contact information for project purpose. (This including confidential emails and confidential information exchange) then why you are not allowing to post the contact information
It is not only illegal to ask somebody to discuss his confidential matter in your premises or board, and it is against the published terms of your website.
In a democratic country anybody (including CEO of freelancer.com) is entitled to discuss his business secrets to others where he feels safe.
—————————————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer.com (Hmm They are slowly coming out of their wonderland)
Hi there,
Thank you for contacting Freelancer.com Support.
Freelancer.com is an online venue for employers and freelancers to meet. What will happen upon acceptance of the project is beyond our scope of support neither do we get involved in the transactions and interactions between employers and freelancers. It’s our part to introduce the two parties but the project’s success still lies only between the employer and freelancer.
This is in your discretion if you want to discuss business secrets with your freelancer or employer. We advice that you only discuss this if you trust them with this information.
As for the new Private Message Board, you won’t be able to post contact details because we encourage our users to make the transactions on the site for their safety.
If you have more questions, please feel free to contact us again.
——————————————————————————————————————————-
Me (let me clarify)
That means, after awarding the project and paying your fees, you are having
no problem to exchange the contact information, and it is not against your
policy.I do not want to discuss anything to the subcontractor on your message
board as simple as thatRegards
——————————————————————————————————————————-
Me (Again on the safety the freelancer.com offering to its users)
“As for the new Private Message Board, you won’t be able to post contact
details because we encourage our users to make the transactions on the site
for their safety.”I could not understand what safety you are talking about?? Will you pay
back the money?? Do you have legal authority to deduct the money from
freelancer and pay to us??Can you please elaborate what is the extra safety I can have by discussing
the details on your private message board. As par as me it ls less safe as
freelancer is not a reputed message carrier like google, msn or yahooRegards
—————————————————————————————————————-
Freelancer.com
Hi there,
Thank you for getting back to us.
We always encourage users not to do the transaction outside the site for payment security reasons. If transaction is made in the site, both parties can agree on using our Milestone Payment. This is the only option where we can protect the users if unlikely events may occur.
You may visit FAQs to learn more about Milestone Payment System:http://www.freelancer.com/faq/topic.php?id=2 and http://www.freelancer.com/faq/topic.php?id=12
Let us know if you need further assistance
————————————————————————————————————————–
Me to justin
Hello Justine,
Please answer for the question. Please please (I did not ask the details of
milestone payments)1. Is it against the terms to exchange the contact information after
awarding the project and paying your fees??. In order to discuss secretly
our business with freelancer as I feel not safe about freelancer message
boards. (please do not say we are safe, only authorized people can look
at). As what I feel safe is safe for me and what you feel safe is for you.
(say It is not allowed or it is allowed)
2. Even if the milestone payment is selected what authority
freelancer.com to decide to whom the money belongs to?? Free lancer is a
third party.
3. what is the extra safety you are offering by discussing our projects
here than discussing on skype and gchat?? (Not about milestone payment
please). (please describe the extra safety about the discussion in message
board?)
——————————————————————————————————————————-
Hello,
Thank you for contacting Freelancer.com Support.
If you feel that it is not safe to post any of the project’s details on the Private Message Board, you may exchange contact information once the project has been successfully awarded to you or you have awarded the project to a freelancer and they accepted your offer.
The Milestone Payment System is designed as a secure payment method within Freelancer.com. When the employer creates a Milestone Payment for a project, it will be put in pending status on our website until the freelancer cancels the pending payment or the employer releases the payment. If you have registered a Verified Payment Source on your Freelancer.com account, it means that you are allowing our system to automatically draft funds for every transactions that you process without having any available balance on your Freelancer.com account.
We encourage our users to use the Private Message Board so that if any issues arise regarding a project, we will be able to review the messages posted on the Private Message Board so that we will be able to give correct recommendation regarding the issue that you are having.
Should you have any other concern, please don’t hesitate to contact us again.
—
Sincerely,
Joe
Freelancer.com Support
e: [email protected]
w: http://www.freelancer.com
——————————————————————————————————————————–
Me (on the Confidentiality issue)
Thanks for clarification.
Regards
“We encourage our users to use the Private Message Board so that if any
issues arise regarding a project, we will be able to review the messages
posted on the Private Message Board so that we will be able to give correct
recommendation regarding the issue that you are having.”Basically you are not allowed to look or read the messages until both party
agrees. If one party raise the issue and other party do not want you to
read the message boards by you (due to confidential or business for
example: their project may be making another freelancer itself to compete
with you), There is nothing much you can. And if you read those message
without permission yo may end up in legal battleAny way by
Please close the issue
🙂 🙂 🙂
———————————————————————————————————————————-
Final Message From Freelancer.com
Hi there,
Thank you for getting back to us.
You can exchange contact details through the private messaging system and as long as the project has been officially accepted by the freelancer.
If you have any further queries, just don’t hesitate to contact us again.
—————————————————————————————-
🙂 🙂 🙂
